— I am curious about people, so I listen to them and I'm curious about the world, so I listen and pay attention as nature unfolds around me in all its mystery. Both fill me with surprise and wonder and I want to tell you about it.
Now onto this week’s discussion question, which comes to us from the excellent travel writer
a) you have to sit still, and b) use your brain cells, quite a lot... no kidding. It's cognitive work, much harder than watching moving images on a screen, cooking, exercise etc. When I'm going through very stressful times, I can't read: I feel there's too much load and pressure. Thinking and processing is not for everyone, and not for any circumstances. Other forms of art (or entertainment) rely on direct stimuli (images, colours, shapes, music), whereas words are concepts.
As for the question...it pulled up a movie memory. The scene in Dances with Wolves when the illiterate solider used John Dunbar's beautiful diary pages as toilet paper. That one always makes my heart hurt. His reason for not valuing it was simply because he couldn't read it. But I think another reason is not being read to as a child and learning to fall in love with stories. Those shaping years are where the value begins.
I think there is a lot of truth to this Rachel. Just yesterday I was helping my parents clean out their basement and happened upon a bunch of my old children's books my mother used to read to me and so packed them up and now they are nestled on our toddler's bookshelf for us to read to him. :)
Interesting and difficult question. I think that, as with most complex things, it comes down to multiple factors. Here are some that come to mind:
—Books are no longer the cultural symbol they used to be; they are no longer a signifier of intelligence, or social class, or good taste; most of that has been replaced by luxury objects like cars and high-tech gadgets and TV series (many of which are great, and, in my view, constitute art, but are in no way a substitute for books);
—As Justin said above, many people mistakenly believe that “information” is all books carry, and they can get that faster and in a more digestible form through watching a YouTube video or listening to a podcast; people forget that it’s the journey that matters most, not the destination; this is obviously true for novels, but even information from nonfiction books like The Body Keeps The Score can be much better retained once you know a little context, a little bit about the hows and whys behind the phenomenon presented;
—Entertainment today is mainly visual and passive; movies, TV shows, story-driven video games, sports, YouTube shorts, TikToks, Instagram Reels, are all colorful and attention-grabbing and eye-catching, while books are certainly not; and consider the fact that generations born as early as 2009 have been subjected to these modern forms of entertainment since birth; it’s parents who have to go counter-culture, to expose their young ones to printed books and resensitize their brains, and how many people in general are willing to go against the herd?
There are, I’m sure, many other reasons. But these are my three cents.
This may be simplistic, but I think it's mostly ignorance. Never introduced to the joy of reading, the joy of learning, the joy of escape in the written word. I'm sad to say that age 69 there are members of my family who would never pick up a book, or encourage their children or grandchildren to do so. Reading is scorned as variously 'boring', 'a waste of time', and 'why would I want to do that?' or even worse, a kind of anti-intellectualism that is 'inherited'. It's very sad. I do believe that ignorance, and especially wilful ignorance, is really dangerous.
It does seem pretty anti-intellectual to 'not value books,' I know very wise people who don't enjoy fiction but like non fiction. I also see a generational difference in attention span and an expectation for the text to zip by to be worthwhile. Reading can be hard work, even for a good and educated reader. Some texts are very dense with information or style. You need time and attention to let the text take you where the writer wants to take you. If you want a beach read or a page turner, many works of literature are going to leave you cold.
It also seems many people are very uncomfortable without certainty. they want to know they have the right answer. They would rather read the online notes than the actual text. Maybe they are test oriented and need comfort of 'getting it' without the effort.
Literature requiring a comfort with interpretation and abstraction must very uncomfortable for people with very literal thought processes. It is hard for me to read technical material in a field I don't easily understand or don't have the basics to understand.
I have found audio books to add a conflict in my own life. I love being read to, listening while I drive or garden or even in the evening when I'm tired. But if the book is well written, I know I am missing a lot of texture and depth and sometimes actually read the book because I know it is beautiful.
I had a memory of a scene in a science fiction thriller by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell, "Lucifer's Hammer" about a comet hitting Earth and the chaos of trying to save civilization. As I remember,a Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) genius scientist hides a cache of invaluable "how-to" books, in a carefully zip locked and ducted package in an old and full septic and ends up saving the good guys.
The modern world prizes the visual, the stimulating, the simple, and the immediate—instant access and instant gratification. Books, on the other hand, are cerebral, complex, they invite readers to engage deeply and reveal their richness slowly over time, they require patience and a capacity for reflection that too many of us are just plain out of practice with. I'm not saying this from a position of superiority by the way - after a hard day at work, Netflix, which all but picks my viewing for me, is simply a more attractive choice. For me, it sometimes feels like work to choose reading, but it's work that I never regret doing
This is an astute observation and I think relates a lot to the structure of our society which places a premium on expediency and efficiency. It takes time to cultivate a passion for reading and to carve out enough time in one’s day to read has to be a value instilled in someone early in life.
They weren't encouraged to read them from the beginning of their lives. Beginning to read as a toddler will help children appreciate the value and comfort of books as they grow older. Those that didn't have that are the ones that don't value books.
Some people don't like fiction. My mother was a teacher, and she had a few students like that. But she got one of them to like reading _biographies_ and another who, it turned out, really liked _cultural history_. But there was a distinct sense of -- you just made this up, it's all lies -- in their objection to fiction, which extended beyond books but into films and television as well. The internet wasn't around at the time ...
I haven’t met anyone who considered fiction “fake”, but I imagine if what they had in their minds was not Dostoyevsky or Rushdie or Franzen, but rather something like James Patterson or Stephen King, then yes, I can understand that. I think for most non-readers the misconception is that genre fiction is fun but isn’t “true”, while literary/realistic fiction is true but boring. Both assumptions are false, of course, but many don’t know that until someone shows it to them.
I myself wasn’t much of a reader until I encountered a high school Romanian teacher who adored fiction and poetry. She taught me how to understand metaphor, sentence rhythm, and what made a good character. I suppose she unlocked something in me. If it wasn’t for her, I would not be a writer today.
Damn, this is crazy. I’m so sorry this happened. This is one of the craziest, if not the actual craziest, “I’m going to teach you to like reading, whether you like it or not” story I’ve ever heard.
I think it's a mixture of fear and lack of access initially, when they were young. Also lack of curiosity, something that's either hardwired into them from birth, or never developed.
Lack of interest is also surely due to the fact that these days, opinions are so easy to find on the internet. Why not just adopt one instead of learning about the subject and forming yours from scratch?
What prompted this question for me was an interesting article from the Atlantic by Thomas Chatterton Williams about some notable figures in the culture who are explicitly "anti-book":
I can sort of understand why some people might not have time to read or prefer other hobbies to some extent and therefore don't value them (even when I think they still ought to), but being outright "anti-book" seems bizarre and puzzling to me.
The closest I can relate to experiencing this is that I've had a friend only recently come around to reading books but up to that point seemed to presume that he didn't need to read books because he could synthesize information and stories much more efficiently on the internet which strikes me as naive and hubristic. I think that may be an unfortunate side-effect of technology today but I'm curious if anyone here has encountered anyone who is adamantly anti-book in real life and what that exchange was like.
I guess there are four reasons why people don't value books anymore:
1. Some of the literary gems are very hard to find, so people can't find and read them to have profound experiences.
2. For reading a book, you can neither do so while standing, nor do so while multitasking (For example when you're listening to an audiobook or podcast, you can multitask to some extent, but for reading, no it doesn't work that way).
3. There are few parents who are willing to read books to their kids (I am an exception. My lullabies were excerpts from Persian literary masterpieces. That's also the reason why i used to and still DO talk bookishly, despite the fact that i can't claim i've read a ton of books). Most parents prefer their kids watch TV rather than read books.
4. In all totalitarian and dictatorial regimes of any kind (The current regime in Iran is a religious dictatorial regime), the government, in order to prevent people from getting knowledgable and prevent them from revolting, makes it harder for people to read good books, the ones that will not only help them understand more of the world around them, but also understand humanity more deeply.
Most people don't think they've got time to read, so they watch TV and listen to books on tape.
I'm worried about what will happen when all the electronics get fried, and people don't know how to read. Would that make people who love to read either powerful allies, or would those who can't read simply kill them?
There are requirements: Focus, Attention Span, Time, Comprehension, Curiosity, Calm Surroundings. Today's world does not earnestly cultivate these qualities.
I've often wondered about this myself, and see a lot of comments about today's world. But I don't think it's just about today. I grew up with books in the house. My shelves were filled. Hello, AP English. But it wasn't until recently it occurred to me, in father's house, there are sport and birding magazines, but no books and in my mother's house, the books that were on the shelves were for decoration only. A friend recently shared that the last time she moved, she moved 10 boxes of books, and decided it was too much so she gave them away trying to downsize to be more mobile. Maybe that's it. We're no longer in one location our entire lives (or fewer of us anyway) and as we move our possessions get smaller. Bringing us back to today, I have to make time to read (it's on my calendar) and I have the luxury of public transport so I can read there. As someone said, books are a commitment. Even if you just read a chapter a day, that's still a few minutes to an hour you can't scroll through social media, binge a few episodes of a favorite series, or check your email one last time before bed. I do all of these things requiring adjustments in order to read. Not saying everyone will or want to, but I have to wonder...is it that people don't value books or is that they don't value their time enough to give to the books?
What a good and difficult question. I have many thoughts but my first one comes from the perspective of clearing out my house to sell and downsize. Books are heavy and take up tons of space. To move them requires endless trips to the liquor store for boxes. Stairs add to the workout. I’ve moved house four times over the decades with an ever-growing library and I’ll tell you, I’m just about over it. (Not really, but it’s fascinating to me that my son, to whom we read every night for his entire childhood, and who loved it, is very book-agnostic now. The digital world is too beguiling.)
That’s another great observation Julie. If one is going to acquire a lot of books they have to be committed to making the space and moving them. Our last move from Knoxville to Indiana made me realize this when I had to move approximately 500 of my books. I have to be an outlier because it doesn’t bother me at all. I’d figure out how to move 10,000 books if I had to because I view them as sacred but I don’t think I’ll be moving any time soon. It is fascinating to think of how much our sacred objects dictate our movements.
It's a terrifying thought, being without books... for me, they are a resource, an inspiration. They hold information that I might need, wonder that delights or challenges. I love books and can't imagine being in a home without books in every room... I can expand my inner horizons through reading, in a way that I have not found possible through any other medium. Besides... books have personalities and a curious scent, which becomes part of the allure... words, shapes of paragraphs, typeface, covering, illustrations... unique relationships. I love my ever expanding library. Oh, and my digital library; I love that too. Books accompany me wherever I go. I celebrate all who write them - they provide company and joy... I would be utterly diminished without books.
Books require, as has been stated, focus, curiosity, and the willingness to listen to other voices.
Books are not the pablum, or 'mental fast food' electronic entertainments, that are so distracting, and so easy to watch, and so shallow, being focused on being accessible to the lowest common denominator. There is much that is plainly specious, on the net and in social media.
Reading is not just something that you passively endure, but is an interaction between the reader and the writer. That is the reward of books. There is the adventure of experiencing other viewpoints and other lives.
Unlike the internet, books are not necessarily concerned with personal critical attacks on others, and self aggrandizement.
As a result, they lose their appeal to those who only appreciate instant gratification.
Also, many people find books dangerous, as they can challenge ideas and assumptions that are held, or implied by others, or stridently shouted, to be the truth.
This is why there have been book burnings, to remove the threat of critical thought, and clarity of circumstance. There are those who despise the critical thinking taught by reading books.
Sorry for the rant. Where would we be, without writings on racism, religious freedom, and rational morality? Where? Without joy, and adventure, and other realities? Writings about innocence and kindness are never amiss, and important not just to children,
Again sorry to rant, but this question is complex, but has touched a nerve.. P
a) you have to sit still, and b) use your brain cells, quite a lot... no kidding. It's cognitive work, much harder than watching moving images on a screen, cooking, exercise etc. When I'm going through very stressful times, I can't read: I feel there's too much load and pressure. Thinking and processing is not for everyone, and not for any circumstances. Other forms of art (or entertainment) rely on direct stimuli (images, colours, shapes, music), whereas words are concepts.
The words you read create the images that may be created on a screen by a filmmaker, but not every book has been made into a movie.
Thank you so much for the recommendation!
As for the question...it pulled up a movie memory. The scene in Dances with Wolves when the illiterate solider used John Dunbar's beautiful diary pages as toilet paper. That one always makes my heart hurt. His reason for not valuing it was simply because he couldn't read it. But I think another reason is not being read to as a child and learning to fall in love with stories. Those shaping years are where the value begins.
I think there is a lot of truth to this Rachel. Just yesterday I was helping my parents clean out their basement and happened upon a bunch of my old children's books my mother used to read to me and so packed them up and now they are nestled on our toddler's bookshelf for us to read to him. :)
What a gift for your children...to pass down those valued stories to a new generation. Doesnt get any better IMO!
Interesting and difficult question. I think that, as with most complex things, it comes down to multiple factors. Here are some that come to mind:
—Books are no longer the cultural symbol they used to be; they are no longer a signifier of intelligence, or social class, or good taste; most of that has been replaced by luxury objects like cars and high-tech gadgets and TV series (many of which are great, and, in my view, constitute art, but are in no way a substitute for books);
—As Justin said above, many people mistakenly believe that “information” is all books carry, and they can get that faster and in a more digestible form through watching a YouTube video or listening to a podcast; people forget that it’s the journey that matters most, not the destination; this is obviously true for novels, but even information from nonfiction books like The Body Keeps The Score can be much better retained once you know a little context, a little bit about the hows and whys behind the phenomenon presented;
—Entertainment today is mainly visual and passive; movies, TV shows, story-driven video games, sports, YouTube shorts, TikToks, Instagram Reels, are all colorful and attention-grabbing and eye-catching, while books are certainly not; and consider the fact that generations born as early as 2009 have been subjected to these modern forms of entertainment since birth; it’s parents who have to go counter-culture, to expose their young ones to printed books and resensitize their brains, and how many people in general are willing to go against the herd?
There are, I’m sure, many other reasons. But these are my three cents.
This may be simplistic, but I think it's mostly ignorance. Never introduced to the joy of reading, the joy of learning, the joy of escape in the written word. I'm sad to say that age 69 there are members of my family who would never pick up a book, or encourage their children or grandchildren to do so. Reading is scorned as variously 'boring', 'a waste of time', and 'why would I want to do that?' or even worse, a kind of anti-intellectualism that is 'inherited'. It's very sad. I do believe that ignorance, and especially wilful ignorance, is really dangerous.
Thanks for the recommendation!
It does seem pretty anti-intellectual to 'not value books,' I know very wise people who don't enjoy fiction but like non fiction. I also see a generational difference in attention span and an expectation for the text to zip by to be worthwhile. Reading can be hard work, even for a good and educated reader. Some texts are very dense with information or style. You need time and attention to let the text take you where the writer wants to take you. If you want a beach read or a page turner, many works of literature are going to leave you cold.
It also seems many people are very uncomfortable without certainty. they want to know they have the right answer. They would rather read the online notes than the actual text. Maybe they are test oriented and need comfort of 'getting it' without the effort.
Literature requiring a comfort with interpretation and abstraction must very uncomfortable for people with very literal thought processes. It is hard for me to read technical material in a field I don't easily understand or don't have the basics to understand.
I have found audio books to add a conflict in my own life. I love being read to, listening while I drive or garden or even in the evening when I'm tired. But if the book is well written, I know I am missing a lot of texture and depth and sometimes actually read the book because I know it is beautiful.
I had a memory of a scene in a science fiction thriller by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell, "Lucifer's Hammer" about a comet hitting Earth and the chaos of trying to save civilization. As I remember,a Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) genius scientist hides a cache of invaluable "how-to" books, in a carefully zip locked and ducted package in an old and full septic and ends up saving the good guys.
It might be time to look up that list!
The modern world prizes the visual, the stimulating, the simple, and the immediate—instant access and instant gratification. Books, on the other hand, are cerebral, complex, they invite readers to engage deeply and reveal their richness slowly over time, they require patience and a capacity for reflection that too many of us are just plain out of practice with. I'm not saying this from a position of superiority by the way - after a hard day at work, Netflix, which all but picks my viewing for me, is simply a more attractive choice. For me, it sometimes feels like work to choose reading, but it's work that I never regret doing
This is an astute observation and I think relates a lot to the structure of our society which places a premium on expediency and efficiency. It takes time to cultivate a passion for reading and to carve out enough time in one’s day to read has to be a value instilled in someone early in life.
No one read to them when they were children.No association with love, warmth, etc.
They weren't encouraged to read them from the beginning of their lives. Beginning to read as a toddler will help children appreciate the value and comfort of books as they grow older. Those that didn't have that are the ones that don't value books.
Some people don't like fiction. My mother was a teacher, and she had a few students like that. But she got one of them to like reading _biographies_ and another who, it turned out, really liked _cultural history_. But there was a distinct sense of -- you just made this up, it's all lies -- in their objection to fiction, which extended beyond books but into films and television as well. The internet wasn't around at the time ...
That’s sad.
I haven’t met anyone who considered fiction “fake”, but I imagine if what they had in their minds was not Dostoyevsky or Rushdie or Franzen, but rather something like James Patterson or Stephen King, then yes, I can understand that. I think for most non-readers the misconception is that genre fiction is fun but isn’t “true”, while literary/realistic fiction is true but boring. Both assumptions are false, of course, but many don’t know that until someone shows it to them.
I myself wasn’t much of a reader until I encountered a high school Romanian teacher who adored fiction and poetry. She taught me how to understand metaphor, sentence rhythm, and what made a good character. I suppose she unlocked something in me. If it wasn’t for her, I would not be a writer today.
My mother in law ‘potty trained’ my husband by sitting him on it with a book!
As a result he can’t go into a library or bookshop without needing to pee & he’s just turned 70!!!
I do try to encourage him with non- fiction that he sometimes can engage with without peeing.
Take this as a warning to treat stories as a pleasant experience for young children or they might turn out like my husband 😬
Damn, this is crazy. I’m so sorry this happened. This is one of the craziest, if not the actual craziest, “I’m going to teach you to like reading, whether you like it or not” story I’ve ever heard.
I think it's a mixture of fear and lack of access initially, when they were young. Also lack of curiosity, something that's either hardwired into them from birth, or never developed.
Lack of interest is also surely due to the fact that these days, opinions are so easy to find on the internet. Why not just adopt one instead of learning about the subject and forming yours from scratch?
What prompted this question for me was an interesting article from the Atlantic by Thomas Chatterton Williams about some notable figures in the culture who are explicitly "anti-book":
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/kanye-west-sam-bankman-fried-books-reading/672823/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
I can sort of understand why some people might not have time to read or prefer other hobbies to some extent and therefore don't value them (even when I think they still ought to), but being outright "anti-book" seems bizarre and puzzling to me.
The closest I can relate to experiencing this is that I've had a friend only recently come around to reading books but up to that point seemed to presume that he didn't need to read books because he could synthesize information and stories much more efficiently on the internet which strikes me as naive and hubristic. I think that may be an unfortunate side-effect of technology today but I'm curious if anyone here has encountered anyone who is adamantly anti-book in real life and what that exchange was like.
Indeed, my ex-husband was anti-book. I will leave that to explain itself!
Yes, see my comment above.
I guess there are four reasons why people don't value books anymore:
1. Some of the literary gems are very hard to find, so people can't find and read them to have profound experiences.
2. For reading a book, you can neither do so while standing, nor do so while multitasking (For example when you're listening to an audiobook or podcast, you can multitask to some extent, but for reading, no it doesn't work that way).
3. There are few parents who are willing to read books to their kids (I am an exception. My lullabies were excerpts from Persian literary masterpieces. That's also the reason why i used to and still DO talk bookishly, despite the fact that i can't claim i've read a ton of books). Most parents prefer their kids watch TV rather than read books.
4. In all totalitarian and dictatorial regimes of any kind (The current regime in Iran is a religious dictatorial regime), the government, in order to prevent people from getting knowledgable and prevent them from revolting, makes it harder for people to read good books, the ones that will not only help them understand more of the world around them, but also understand humanity more deeply.
Which is why American slaves were not allowed to read (although they did).
Thanks for mentioning it. I didn't know that.
Most people don't think they've got time to read, so they watch TV and listen to books on tape.
I'm worried about what will happen when all the electronics get fried, and people don't know how to read. Would that make people who love to read either powerful allies, or would those who can't read simply kill them?
It makes one wonder, doesn't it?
There are requirements: Focus, Attention Span, Time, Comprehension, Curiosity, Calm Surroundings. Today's world does not earnestly cultivate these qualities.
I've often wondered about this myself, and see a lot of comments about today's world. But I don't think it's just about today. I grew up with books in the house. My shelves were filled. Hello, AP English. But it wasn't until recently it occurred to me, in father's house, there are sport and birding magazines, but no books and in my mother's house, the books that were on the shelves were for decoration only. A friend recently shared that the last time she moved, she moved 10 boxes of books, and decided it was too much so she gave them away trying to downsize to be more mobile. Maybe that's it. We're no longer in one location our entire lives (or fewer of us anyway) and as we move our possessions get smaller. Bringing us back to today, I have to make time to read (it's on my calendar) and I have the luxury of public transport so I can read there. As someone said, books are a commitment. Even if you just read a chapter a day, that's still a few minutes to an hour you can't scroll through social media, binge a few episodes of a favorite series, or check your email one last time before bed. I do all of these things requiring adjustments in order to read. Not saying everyone will or want to, but I have to wonder...is it that people don't value books or is that they don't value their time enough to give to the books?
What a good and difficult question. I have many thoughts but my first one comes from the perspective of clearing out my house to sell and downsize. Books are heavy and take up tons of space. To move them requires endless trips to the liquor store for boxes. Stairs add to the workout. I’ve moved house four times over the decades with an ever-growing library and I’ll tell you, I’m just about over it. (Not really, but it’s fascinating to me that my son, to whom we read every night for his entire childhood, and who loved it, is very book-agnostic now. The digital world is too beguiling.)
That’s another great observation Julie. If one is going to acquire a lot of books they have to be committed to making the space and moving them. Our last move from Knoxville to Indiana made me realize this when I had to move approximately 500 of my books. I have to be an outlier because it doesn’t bother me at all. I’d figure out how to move 10,000 books if I had to because I view them as sacred but I don’t think I’ll be moving any time soon. It is fascinating to think of how much our sacred objects dictate our movements.
It's a terrifying thought, being without books... for me, they are a resource, an inspiration. They hold information that I might need, wonder that delights or challenges. I love books and can't imagine being in a home without books in every room... I can expand my inner horizons through reading, in a way that I have not found possible through any other medium. Besides... books have personalities and a curious scent, which becomes part of the allure... words, shapes of paragraphs, typeface, covering, illustrations... unique relationships. I love my ever expanding library. Oh, and my digital library; I love that too. Books accompany me wherever I go. I celebrate all who write them - they provide company and joy... I would be utterly diminished without books.
“Books accompany me wherever I go.” Yes! 🙌
I think the reason some of us love reading is that we want to enjoy dialogue with the author, whether fiction or non-fiction.
Books require, as has been stated, focus, curiosity, and the willingness to listen to other voices.
Books are not the pablum, or 'mental fast food' electronic entertainments, that are so distracting, and so easy to watch, and so shallow, being focused on being accessible to the lowest common denominator. There is much that is plainly specious, on the net and in social media.
Reading is not just something that you passively endure, but is an interaction between the reader and the writer. That is the reward of books. There is the adventure of experiencing other viewpoints and other lives.
Unlike the internet, books are not necessarily concerned with personal critical attacks on others, and self aggrandizement.
As a result, they lose their appeal to those who only appreciate instant gratification.
Also, many people find books dangerous, as they can challenge ideas and assumptions that are held, or implied by others, or stridently shouted, to be the truth.
This is why there have been book burnings, to remove the threat of critical thought, and clarity of circumstance. There are those who despise the critical thinking taught by reading books.
Sorry for the rant. Where would we be, without writings on racism, religious freedom, and rational morality? Where? Without joy, and adventure, and other realities? Writings about innocence and kindness are never amiss, and important not just to children,
Again sorry to rant, but this question is complex, but has touched a nerve.. P